Saturday, April 05, 2008

Chindu confirms that religious conversions is not working

Chindu in a recent article confirms that religious conversions is not working. There have been numerous conversion activities by various groups to convert in most cases the tribals and people from lower sections of society, most noticeably Dalits. But a commission for minorities after detailed research concludes,
here could be no doubt that Dalit Muslims and Christians are socially known and treated as distinct groups within their own religious communities.

The article can be read in its entirety here

Let me see here, these people converted so that they could join the mainstream society using a new religion. But apparently the new saviors are no better than their old tormentors. So will there be an article to state how Islam and Christianity do not include those who they convert into their religion? Will there be a social parade to claim how these people were tormented by the religion they converted to?

The issue here is the National Commission for Minorities claims that this change to grant them Scheduled Caste status would,
“not only right a wrong” but also remove an “indefensible anomaly in our politico-legal system that can legitimately be construed as discriminatory,” it said.

How so, I ask? Hypothetically let us say for example a person has been born without eyesight, hence the person receives privileges deserving of a handicapped person. Now the person gets an eye transplant and can see properly.
Should the person not be treated as a regular individual? Why should that person get benefit of past blindness, unless the surgery has not cured the problem? The report confirms the exact statement.
Hence the theory that the religions of Islam and Christianity have been all inclusive of those who convert has been proved wrong by social research done by the National Commission for Minorities.
Remember you heard it first on "The Chindu".


Anonymous said...

Chindu columnist P.S Suryanarayana, repeats the same crap twice in his column:

"Mr. Ma’s notion of a “peace treaty” flies against the widely recognised One-China principle. The idea of such a treaty is, after all, designed to conceal the simple but profound fact that Taiwan is at best only a non-state actor with no attributes of sovereignty on the international stage."

and then...

"Mr. Ma’s stated policy of seeking a “peace treaty” with the PRC is, of course, wrongly conceived, given that Taiwan is a non-state actor under the One-China principle"

Chindu seems to be trying its level best to please its chineese masters, even if it means repeating the same crap. After the lull for a few days after the violence in tibet, chindu columnists seem to be working overtime now to produce a column a day!

Anonymous said...

Of course religious conversions don't work! It is good that you picked up this article and highlighted the hypocricy behind the conversion game.

The aggrieved Dalits - for example, the Dalit catholics can approach the Pope and the Dalit Muslims can appeal to Chindu's buddy, the Arcot "Nawab" (who claims to be a harmony specialist) for redressal. But, they won't.

Now that Chindu has been sufficiently provoked, we can expect it to commission a long centre page OpEd, from JNU (or its Chennai branch, which goes by the name of MIDS.) All the problems of the Dalits among the minorities will be readily traced to good old Manu and not the local Archbishop or Imam.

I am reposting the comment which I posted (just now, in another thread).

A few weeks ago we presented here Chindu's report softpedalling violent intercaste problems in a super "secular" minority religion in TN.

Here is some more stuff on the same problem from Chindu, as usual superficial and non-committal.

Eraiyur Catholics agree to sink differences

VILLUPURAM: The warring factions of Catholics at Eraiyur near Ulundurpet decided to sink their differences at a peace committee meeting held there on Wednesday.

Archdiocese representative C. Antonysamy, parish priests, panchayat president Arokkiyadas, Vanniya Christians, Dalit Christians and police officers attended the meeting.

....However, at the cemetery, the existing practice will continue -- separate burial grounds.

First of all, whether the Christians sink (or swim) their differences, why should the police officers be present? If it is such a serious law and order problem, then it should be treated as such and no attempts to sidestep it.

But, more interestingly, Chindu (again, reporting as a matter of fact) says that the existing practise of "separate" burial grounds will continue!

Chindu could have as well carried the headline "Atrocities on Dalit Christians. Shameful practice of separate burial grounds continues".

However much Chindu wants to sink or bury the differences within Chindu's favourite minority religion, the reality is glaring, striking on Chindu's face.

In the same issue of Chindu, the Chief writes a sermonising editorial on some Dalit issue in UP (verbal clash among politicians) and Chindu does not hesitate to take up the cause of the Dalit CM.

May be Chindu is reluctant to take on the Catholic church or it is afraid of the "Vanniyar" Christians, to rub them on the wrong side.

Dirt Digger said...

Thanks for your comment.
Chindu blindly proclaims in all its articles that the Chinese constitution and decisions were made and written in stone.
Give me a break. They also mis-quoted John Garver in the article. In fact John Garver in his research has said that China is the prime reason for causing tension in the South Asia region throughout the 80s and later.

Chindu used to have some real quality writers not too long back. I remember R.Mohan the cricket writer was probably the last real quality writer in the Chindu stable. But really what happened was once the newspaper's control went over from the Kasturi group to the N.Murali/Ravi/Ram group the quality of recruiting dropped significantly. The Chindu no longer was the top name in the market.

Dirt Digger said...

You are right Chief is caught between a rock and a hard place. They will probably try to blame it on socio-economic conditions(causes of which will not be discussed) in the same way they defended SIMI.
People are intelligent to a level, if they choose to discriminate then shame on them.
The way the Government does not step in to enforce the law is ridiculous. Discrimination based on community present or past is a crime and people can be sent to prison. Where is the savior Mu Ka?
Oh yes, he's trying to get water from Hoganekal.
It reminds me of a scene in a famous movie where CM states that his Government is based on 4 legs.
Yup that old man is Mu Ka.
Corrupt inefficient and impotent.

pilid said...

A worthwhile point and one that K.M.Munshi made during the deliberations of the Constituent Assembly - in fact, the reason that reservations have been limited to religions under the Hindu fold is largely owing to him. This proposal has been made many a time before and it has fallen through early largely because the BJP threatened to go to town if the privilege was extended within the framework of quotas currently reserved only for Hindu-SCs/STs, a move that the secular parties feared would undercut their current base. That factor still exists and the last I heard of it was that the Cabinet recommended that any changes made should be in addition to the current quotas. However the 50% ceiling set by the Supreme Court makes that difficult, so it remains to be seen what recourse the government will end up taking. In any case, it is not going to be easy and even if it is done, it may end up being challenged in court.

Supporters of this quota (Shanti Bhushan and his son) are also trying the PIL route to make this happen. A bench headed by Lahoti showed some sympathy with the cause though the final outcome is awaited - something to watch out for.

socal said...


How does TN get away with exceeding the 50% cap on reservations?

Other states could use the same escape route. Hasn't AP brought in reservations for Christians already?

pilid said...

Parliament passed a constitutional amendment bill to include a special provision under Art. 31(B) allowing Tamil Nadu to keep its 69% cap. Provisions under that article were traditionally excluded from judicial review until the SC judgment last year in the I.B.Coelho case where the Court struck it down. So, the 69% quota can now be challenged as violating the basic structure of the constitution and in fact, if I am right, a petition is pending before the court on this very question (In fact, one of the judges expressed precisely this very concern regarding the excessive TN quota during the hearing in that case, so there is at least a fair chance that it will end up being struck down).
As for AP, it tried to provide religion-based quotas at a state level. In fact, no state other than TN has managed to get an amendment passed through (in the coalition era, it has only gotten much harder). I have not read the opinion but I suspect the govt. failed to make out a case as to why the entire religious community itself requires to be classified as socially and educationally backward, a prerequisite for awarding the privilege.

Ram said...

Dirt digger,
You mentioned that the The Hindu's control went from the Kasturi group to Murali/Ram/Ravi group, is there any chance of the ownership changing in the future?

Why did the Kasturi group & the Murali/Ram/ Ravi group fight? Did their ideological orientation play a role in that fight?

I know this is a long shot in a private company. If its revenues are falling, it might an opening to an acquirer?

Is this a pipe dream?


Dirt Digger said...

socal, pilid,
The point worth mentioning in any discussion about reservations is that the founders of the Constitution had deemed the reservation to happen for a specified time period only(10 or 20 years).
But parties have been extending it simply to play vote bank politics.
The Supreme Court had the case about the exclusion of the creamy layer, but nothing concrete was implemented.
Pilid thanks for the details on the TN Supreme court case

Dirt Digger said...

The History of this family based newspaper is quite interesting.
The transition happened around 1991, if my memory serves right.
The transition happened in 2 steps. First N.Ram quit his editorial responsibilities in the Hindu and moved over to manage Frontline in 1998 after the Bofors scandal.
Then G.Kasturi who was the editor for many decades handed over responsibilities to N.Ravi and N.Murali took over as the Managing Director or CEO.
I do not beleive this was ideologically driven, though G.Kasturi had a pro-Government tilt. Now to your million dollar question,
If its revenues are falling, it might an opening to an acquirer?
This is a great question, and something which will be answered within the end of this decade.
Simply because of the age of current management, there will be changes. Given the family's commitment to journalism in general and the newspaper in specific, I do not believe that they will divest to an outside company.
But as you said with both DC and TOI coming into Chennai, it might be time for some reinvention.

socal said...

"If its revenues are falling, it might an opening to an acquirer?"

I doubt China will let go such a useful asset for something as silly as want of money.

Expect ad revenue from China (MSS money) for chindu grow mysteriously. If Rajdeep TV can get money from Gulf what's stopping Chindu anyway.

Dirt Digger said...

Thats a great point Socal.
The puppeteer will make the background move. Its classic strategy from Chanakya. If saama(peace) does not work then try daana(bribes) or Bheda(creating discord) before you need to go to war(danda) .
And there are a lot of people who would take the daana than have integrity.

Ram said...

dirt digger,
Thanks for your response.

Well if they i.e. N Ram & group pass on control to someone else they will only give it to someone who shares their ideology. So I dont see much hope there.

I grew up reading The Hindu, & had great respect for its quality of journalism. It really pains me to see this newspaper being run to the ground. I wish I could do something about this.

Keep up the good work guys.


Anonymous said...

As long as reasonable revenue continues to pour from the Chindu and associated publications, the other stake holders (i.e. the extended Chindu family, besides Murali, Ram & Co.) may not care much for ideology etc.

Chindu seems to thrive more on advts. (both Public and Corporate sectors, classifieds etc.) than circulation alone.

If anyone wishes to start a media house afresh, based on some fancy ideology it may not survive for a long time. In the case of Chindu, a reputed media organisation has been handed over to a group (within the family) who, literally born with silver spoons in thir mouths, are amusing themselves with an outdated ideology.

The result, as they say is like a beautiful garland unfortunatley landing on the hands of a vicarious simian creature.

Dirt Digger said...

Thanks for your support. Questions like that help our readers understand how the Chindu became what it is today. I would not lose all hope on the Chindu. There are a couple of reasons why. One is both Murali and Ram are around the same reason and as soon as they step down, the next in line could be G.Kasturi's sons, Venugopal and Balaji (both are incredibly dynamic people, especially Balaji).
They have the vision to make a change in the Hindu.
Wait and see....

Dirt Digger said...

Great analogy about the simian :)
We all know who those simians are.
Rama Rama.
The growth of the internet into a leading provider of news and the entry of other magazines looks to put a dent into the Hindu's fortunes.
With TOI and DC biting into the circulation, it appears that Hindu will be forced to take a look at its policies sooner than later.