Tuesday, July 22, 2008

Pearls of wisdom from the PM-in-waiting

While the whole country has been debating intensely about the nuclear deal, the young prince thought about this issue yesterday and came up with one reason why we need the deal. During yesterday's debate, our PM-in-waiting displayed another such intellectual prowess, when he said that the biggest problem facing the country is "energy". Unfortunately, his message did not reach the few hundred million Indians who are still worrying about poverty.

Rahul interrupted, gets just 10 minutes
“Yesterday, I was thinking why we are meeting here. Why this house needs to meet. I came to the conclusion that we are meeting because there is a serious problem in India and the problem is our energy security,” he said.

33 comments:

indianraksa said...

Okay, lets be fair enough. There may be a number of issues with which I don't agree with Rahul Ghandi but this isn't one of them.

There are two points I want to make.

1. Why don't you let the text speak for itself rather than poisoning the well? You claim "he said that the biggest problem facing the country is "energy"."

I saw his speech he never claimed that. Your quote also testifies to the fact. he said "I came to the conclusion that we are meeting because there is a serious problem in India and the problem is our energy security". As it can be seen, he said it was a serious problem and not the biggest problem as you wrote. In fact when he was saying exactly the same phrase, a voice from somewhere (probably the opposition) suggested "poverty". Rahul responded by saying he will exactly show how energy security is related with poverty and gave examples where the main theme was poverty and how it is caused by depending on a single corp, which he extrapolated to the issue of energy.

2. Don't even try telling me Energy security isn't a serious problem. I am sitting in Chennai one of the metropolitan cities of India and a city which economic times hinted is becoming the silicon valley of India, even if it doesn't is unarguably only second to Bangalore. Yet we are facing an imposed power cut of 1 hour a day!

Anonymous said...

Indianraksha is right. In Hyderabad / AP power cut is 3 hours a day. Reality can not be ignore just because one does not like Rajiv Gandhi.

R said...

Dear indianraksa, and Anon,

Now UPA won; and the nuclear deal will be signed. Do you think we will not have power cuts anymore, say after a few (10 or 20) years from now ? Dear fellows, even I support the nuclear deal; but not because it will solve, or even help to solve our problem of energy security; there are other reasons. Experts have shown that if our aim is to merely solve the energy problem, there are better and cheaper ways of doing it. So what Rahul Gandhi did was a rhetorical speech.

Though this nuclear deal will contribute only very little towards solving our energy problems, it might help India in the front of strategic and military alliance with the US and help India to get into the big league of nuclear "powers". Having China and Pakistan as our neighbors, it will be only good to have a strategic alliance with the US -- therefore I support the nuclear deal. I have no hope that it will contribute towards ending power cut anytime in the future -- and let us not talk about it eradicating poverty!

In fact, someone asked in the parliament to give us figures, like how much power we will get as a result of this deal and when and for what "cost" ?

Now about being "fair" to Rahul Gandhi. Should we be fair to him ? Is he fair enough to others ? If he was a fair person, when congress offered him a slot to speak in the Loksabha, he should have given that slot to better, more qualified, younger speakers. We all know that in congress, there are much better young MPs(better qualified speakers; also politicians)than Mr. Gandhi and if he was a fair person, he would say that the congress should give a chance to others (say Sachin Pilot or Jyotiraditya Scindia). Did he do that ? Was he fair when he chose to speak ditching better qualified MPs ?

Anonymous said...

"During yesterday's debate, our PM-in-waiting displayed another such intellectual prowess, when he said that the biggest problem facing the country is "energy"."

I donot think anything wrong in what Rahul has said. This is the same reason cited by other politicians and supporters of the deal. Advani and the BJPites thought otherwise. RSS does not say anything about the deal rather it pats on Karat for opposing the Congress forgetting that Karat's one point mission is to finish off BJP.

"Unfortunately, his message did not reach the few hundred million Indians who are still worrying about poverty."

Not having the deal done will not eradicate poverty. I live in a G8 country. Here we still have poor people who cannot afford three meal a day. But they donot live with frequent power cuts like my parents in a remote part of Tamil Nadu for an average of 4 hours a day.

I support this deal blindly because anything opposed by the left must be good for India (computerisation, liberalisation, etc.). Now I should also include BJP in this list.


Pathanjali

Sachin said...

Rahul Ghandi was a shy speaker.

indianraksa said...

R,

I never said that all our energy needs will be met by the N-deal and there won't be any power cuts.

But there can be no doubt that nuclear energy is futuristic, countries like France produce 70% of their power from N-energy. Our present Nuclear capability will certainly not be able to meet all our energy needs, but we need to start somewhere. You can't except to get fruits from the seeds you sowed yesterday.

The point was whether Rahul Gandhi was right in claiming energy security is a serious problem. Yes! It is. In fact, some of the other speakers supporting the deal clearly stated , nuclear energy will be beneficial in the longer run. Gandhi on his part never set a time frame as to how N-energy will meet our needs.

As to your second point, I already said I disagree with Rahul Gandhi on a lot of issues. If he thinks he is a better speaker than many out there, he is certainly wrong. But he never claimed that. All he was claiming was energy security is a serious problem. Which was construed by the author as a the biggest problem.

Two wrongs don't make a thing write. To point out R. Gandhi's other shortcomings to show that the author was justified in twisting what Gandhi said is not acceptable.

Anonymous said...

tho thweet

Anonymous said...

france is the only example of a country generating major portion of its electricity thru nuclear. it is may be the size of karnataka, and a wrong example. it is not like you will get uranium for free - in the last 3-4 years uranium prices apparently went up four times. possibly in anticipation of this deal and a big 'committed' market in india. hello reliance power.

per unit cost of power thru nuclear reactors will be much higher - there are actual numbers. get a break from your cheer-leading and go google up.

Anonymous said...

the chief is pi*sed with the congress and the esteemed speaker. what a fall! see the editorial today -
www.hindu.com/2008/07/24/stories/2008072452781000.htm

"But the prime time featuring of real money in the Lok Sabha drama, obliging the Speaker to promise some kind of investigation, opened up a serious credibility gap for Dr. Singh, who prides himself on his squeaky clean personal image, and Congress president Sonia Gandhi."

"the fierce polemics, and, with some luck, the pursuit of the truth behind the charges of vote-buying"

'squeaky clean image', 'with some luck' ... the chief must be hurting.

at this rate, i might consider switching subscription to the chindu.

Hindu Fundamentalist said...

indianraksa, thanks for being the ombudsman of this blog.
it does not change that the circuitous argument of raul gandhi is dumb.

Anonymous said...

- france is the only example of a country generating major portion of its electricity thru nuclear.

WRONG

- it is may be the size of karnataka, and a wrong example.

WRONG

- in the last 3-4 years uranium prices apparently went up four times.

WRONG

- per unit cost of power thru nuclear reactors will be much higher

WRONG


You must be proud of too many facts wrong in a few lines. Must be reading Arun Shourie or Brahma Chellaney. I am sure you are damn pissed off the UPA govt. did not fall.

Sangeeta

Anonymous said...

If fairness is the criterion, it is perfectly in order to chastise Rahul Gandhi for his small speech.Afterall, one does not derive anyvalue out of the small rehearsed speech, when reality points out that it is his party which has brought us to this nadir.

Afterall we do not have to suffer these glib (in the case of Rahul Gandhi- not so glib, either) politician spouting out their virtues while screwing the nation all the time.

First of all, what is his credentials (Other than being a family member of the dynasty) which should make a person sit up and listen?

Secondly, what has he stated other than naming the pbvious? After all the end is energy security and the means is nuclear power. All the CON gress has been championing for is only the nuclear deal, which clearly takes us out of the energy security Domain and pushes us in tot he Foriegn policy domain. What was his views on the matter?

Ignoring the concerns of the left, which is more semantic, I think all other stakeholders had a valid point on the strategic relationship that we need to have with the US. In any which case there is a need for evolving a bipartisanhip when it comes to defining and pursuing the foriegn policy of the Country, which could survice the current dispensation. There is therefore a need to involve the principal oppossition party in the deleberations in a manner that you hear to their view points, even if you choose to act in the manner you think is best suited for the Country. The BJP has been making the right suggestion (even if it was not asked of them) to come out with a local legislation to counter the Hyde Act (Whether or not there is substance in their suggestion, the government would be duty bound to listen and tak their point of view)
Instead the current dispensation ignores and treats the principal oppossition badly, even while molly coddling with the Left, which was very clear it will oppose at all costs.Where was this fair minded person at that stage?

It is not reasonable to judge a person with a public profile based on a single action. We should judge him based on a series of actions and we do not see anything fair that could be attributed to his actions.

Thyagarajan

Anonymous said...

// You must be proud of too many facts wrong in a few lines. Must be reading Arun Shourie or Brahma Chellaney. //

so i read shourie who is like, a Magsaysay awardee, worked at world bank, and known for his research that goes into his works.

what did you read? or err.. smoke?

>> I am sure you are damn pissed off the UPA govt. did not fall.

you got a crystal ball? i said nothing about the trust vote. but you shore appear pissed about shourie - stuff like 'eminent historians' will sure not make some kinds of people happy. stay pissed. and if you get the time,read wikipedia or look at uranium price movements at uraniumstox.com.

Anonymous said...

It looks like the commies are the ones "pissed off the UPA govt. did not fall". The whole crisis (or better, tamasha) was provoked by the left withdrawing at last, support to the Congress. It was only a "confidence motion" moved by the govt. and as such the BJP did not have anything to do with it.

If folks are really serious about nuclear energy etc. then it could have been debated in a better way and there was no need to precipitate a showdown as the commies and Congress did.

Anyhow, it was useful for a few dozen MPs to to earn a few crores of rupees. And as to the earnings of the new extra-constitutional power centres engenderred, even sky may not be the limit.

Anonymous said...

"shourie who is like, a Magsaysay awardee, worked at world bank, and known for his research that goes into his works."

- Who else worked at world bank from India? I cannot think of any one other than Shourie. You are right.

- Magsaysay award, the less the said better.

""read wikipedia or look at uranium price movements at uraniumstox.com"

- You must be one smart guy to read wikipedia to dicuss about issues :-) Next time I get time, I will definitely read wikipedia.

'eminent historians' - Have you read it? I am sure that is the easiest one to come across in google search on Shourie. Have you not read anything else by him? Having said that he is not in academia to talk about the eminencies, say Romila Thapar not withstanding her views on various issues.

Sangeeta

Anonymous said...

its good to see that shourie gets you excited. i have seen this type. lets get started.

Magsaysay award bad. lets see why shourie got it -

"It is the distinction of SHOURE and his Indian Express colleagues that by exceptionally thorough investigative reporting and incisive writing they challenged the lethargic ways threatening Indian journalism. " "During the Emergency he began writing articles and speeches for leaders of protest." "India's political hierarchy was shaken last year when in the Indian Express SHOURIE revealed how the Chief Minister of Maharashtra State within a few months collected more than US$5 million by creating artificial shortages of cement, "

OUch that hurts, mama make it stop.

i said france is *may be* the size of karnataka. but since that is 'wrong', let us see the population figures - if you are going to light up homes with all those reactors, you got to be counting that. France - 6.4 crores (frm the cia fact sheet, that you gotta believe. they butter our daily bread after them bad doggies kgb went bust). karnataka - 5.5 crores.

let us talk nuclear power share. since your dumbwitted monarch sniggers at wikipedia, let us try http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/nshare.html

france at 75%. okay, lets throw in such huge economic powerhouses as slovakia, Slovenia, lithuania, they cross 50%. then look at china - 1.9%. UK - 15%. USA - 19%.

Oh her royal highness the uncrowned queen romila thapar. what, you cant remember other eminences? and shourie is good if he is not in *such academia* that charges taxpayer money for 'research work' that is never turned in, and when turned in is actually a plagiarized piece. Ouch mama ban that book.

and okay, since i am the dumb one who hasn't read anything other than shourie's that one book and wikipedia, what are *your* sources?

and would p.k.iyengar count? or is he not in the approved list? 'not academia like romila thapar'?

such numbnuts. but the pay must be good.

Anonymous said...

"Academia", oops the freightening word to scare the ordinary mortals. More freightening, if emnating from JNU. Beware, ye mighty and despair.

International conferences on secularism, workshops in hill stations on communalism, visiting lecturehips (wherelse, but Yankeeland). It is all great stuff, this "Academia" business.

Anonymous said...

"It is the distinction of SHOURE and his Indian Express colleagues that by exceptionally thorough investigative reporting and incisive writing they challenged the lethargic ways threatening Indian journalism. "

- the best among the worst in the 80's and 90's. Read Siddhardh Varadarajan, you will know what is investigative journalism. Though he is half-baked, many people donot agree with his views, you can understand he puts in lots of efforts to expose complicated issues. I am sure he does refer to wikipedia and CIA fact sheet as he is from yankee land :)

"During the Emergency he began writing articles and speeches for leaders of protest."

- studied at public school, Stephen and Yankeeland to become a speech writter, must be a pretty talented journalist. But not good enough for Goenka though.

"frm the cia fact sheet, that you gotta believe."

- from wikipedia to cia fact sheet, you are truly amazing :)

"France - 6.4 crores & karnataka - 5.5 crores."

- the population figures are truly similar.

"let us try http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/nshare.html"

- the best website any one can refer to during discussion on n-energy. I am sure you googled through to search for this site :) Read Energy Policy published Elsevier publisher. You donot know what is Energy Policy or who is the publisher? This is an academic journal, not certainly available free on websites so you may not find it.

"Oh her royal highness the uncrowned queen romila thapar."

- if only you had to be believed on the amazing talents of Shourie, Magsaysay award winner, the students of ancient India would be studying the amazing works of Shourie and not Thapar. Even on Modern India, which Shourie never tired of to show his nearly learnt skills, the students would not be reading the likes of S. Gopal and Bipan Chandra. Shourie at best is a journalist "re"writting all issues A-Z. Now Shourie is also talking about strategic affairs :) If people like you are there to read, who would hesitate to write. As any publicity is a good publicity, even a trash would be good for publicity.

"what are *your* sources"

- if Shourie is the best you could find to read, wikipedia and a couple of websites to gather the information on, what best can you achieve by looking for new sources. The comparison of the population figures shows you must be a fan of Shourie :)

"and would p.k.iyengar count?"

- Shourie and Iyengar, what a deadly combination to challenge and destroy anyone's argument. For a change, try to read the writings of K subramaniam (son-in-law of M S Rajan) and guys from IDSA such as C. Raja Mohan, C Uday Bhaskar, etc. Mind you they are "only" from academia not Magsaysay award winning journalists like Shourie :)

"that charges taxpayer money for 'research work' that is never turned in"

- I am sure the experimental scientists at VSSC, ISRO are turning in new missile every six months to justify taxpayer money for 'research work'. Even with this amazing output, they still manage to find time to regularly read Cinema Express and Kumudam. I am sure Indian army is happy with Arjun tank developed by DRDO (http://www.indianexpress.com/iep/sunday/story/16477.html). Can I see Shourie hunting down people in DRDO, VSSC, ISRO that charges taxpayer money for 'research work' that is never turned in.

"Academia", oops the freightening word to scare the ordinary mortals.

- You are right, otherwise Shourie would not be writting speech for others.

"More freightening, if emnating from JNU."

- Don't tell this to JNU guys as they are worried about 'investigative journalists'.


Sangeeta

Anonymous said...

" I am sure you googled through to search for this site :) Read Energy Policy published Elsevier publisher. You donot know what is Energy Policy or who is the publisher? This is an academic journal, not certainly available free on websites so you may not find it. "

so google is bad. and the internet is bad. it hurts mama, becos those unwashed heathens now have access to *information*. and *uncensored* information. in the good old days it was our 'eminences' in the 'academia' that controlled information and decided how to spin it. ban that internet thingy.

do you have any information that proves that the information on nuclear power share of countries from this site is incorrect? or that the uranium price movement chart from the other site is incorrect? why do you hop mad from one to another without answering specifics, but merely dropping 'eminences' and calling others names? oh i forgot, but that is exactly what it says in the handbook. assertions are truths. when those assertions are pricked,rally forth more assertions from more eminences.

oh yeah, sidhardh varadarajan is the best there is. continue tracking this blog for his excellence.

some_other_anonymous said...

@Sangeeta

I thought Brahma Chellaney was an academic !

Anonymous said...

An 'academic' is not an 'academic' if he is not from JNU. Just like an 'intellectual' is not one if he is not from the 'left'.

Anonymous said...

oh yeah, sidhardh varadarajan is the best there is. continue tracking this blog for his excellence.

- Siddhardh Varadajan's views may not be acceptable, but that does not mean that he does a shabby job like Shourie.

An 'academic' is not an 'academic' if he is not from JNU. Just like an 'intellectual' is not one if he is not from the 'left'.

- Prof. Rajasekar, Prof Sondhi were from JNU and they were hardcore BJPites. May be you donot know who they are because they are not referred to by Shourie. All you seem to know about JNU is from the readings of Shourie's one article. I am sure you did not read even that article properly. That is what Shourie also does, investigative journalism.

I thought Brahma Chellaney was an academic !

- People also say Yogendra Yadav is an academic as he works at CSDS.

Sangeeta

R said...

Sangeeta,

"if only you had to be believed on the amazing talents of Shourie, Magsaysay award winner, the students of ancient India would be studying the amazing works of Shourie and not Thapar."

Less said better about Thapar's ancient India ! Thapar fooled history students telling various nonsense stories about ancient India! Thanks to academics working in *science*, Thapar stories are being exposed. Thapar's pet "theories" are being proven wrong when tested against hard *scientific* evidence. [FYI: this is not a Wikipedia link, but a link to a PNAS research paper, one of the most reputed academic journals]

Thank god, at least the future generations wouldn't be taught such Thapar nonsense!

Anonymous said...

"Thapar's pet "theories" are being proven wrong when tested against hard *scientific* evidence. [FYI: this is not a Wikipedia link, but a link to a PNAS research paper, one of the most reputed academic journals"

forget it. if it aint from JNU, it aint academic. okay, vedhams books might get you some mileage. MS RAJAN, son in law etc.

nuuummmmmbnuts.

R said...

@Sangeeta
Having said that he is not in academia to talk about the eminencies...

What is so sacred of being in academia ?! Albert Einstein was not in academia when he wrote down the famous Einstein's relation -- he was just a clerk in a patent office!

indianraksa said...

"china - 1.9%"

well, any idea on what P chidambaram had to say on this?

some_other_anonymous said...

- Siddhardh Varadajan's views may not be acceptable, but that does not mean that he does a shabby job like Shourie.

of course that may not mean; but reading his articles, it is clear that he does a shabby job! He recently claimed that majority of Indians are against India having a strategic alliance with the US and when questioned he agreed that he has no evidence! -- not a shabby job at all! -- not a shabby job at all!

anon_who_only_reads_wikipedia said...

"He recently claimed that majority of Indians are against India having a strategic alliance with the US and when questioned he agreed that he has no evidence!"

but we eminences are allowed to claim anything with assertions. and if those assertions are questioned, we are allowed to prove our assertions by repeating those assertions. you dont know how it works? the going was pretty good.

it worked pretty well until that shourie guy came along. shourie baaad. we eminences pretty upset.

but this internet thingummy baaad too. we eminences get such a whipping from you unwashed heathens. we have our exclusive academic journals that you wont get for free on the net. twit twit.

Anonymous said...

"I am sure the experimental scientists at VSSC, ISRO are turning in new missile every six months to justify taxpayer money for 'research work'. Even with this amazing output, they still manage to find time to regularly read Cinema Express and Kumudam."

well, they send those satellite thingummies up the sky and those thingummies stay there. or so they claim, we need to get that verified by our eminences. will we get some grant for that? and some free trips thrown in?

but then rocket science is not really rocket science. our romila thapar stuff is the real rocket science.

btw, what those engineers do after they launch those satellites is not really any of the eminences' business. they could be browsing porn. how would the eminences know they only stop at cinema express and kumudam?

Anonymous said...

"Readership preferences of techno-babus in DRDO, VSSC, ISRO. Part 1. Tamil semi-literary magazines." I guess this paper was published in a 'leading' peer-reviewed sociology pulp-zine (pardon me, Journal). Very likely, 'Economic and Political Weekly'. The foot-note on the first page says this seminal work was also presented in one or more 'international' conferences, besides India International Centre, Coffee House sessions.

It is also rumoured that this pathbreaking study has been cited in several mutual-backscratching networks.

socal said...

I don't understand why Marxists like Sangeeta are so hung up about 'academia'? As if most smart people don't venture outside the academic cocoon.

For all their pretense the Indian Marxists have not produced a single volume that's considered seminal by their comrades around the world. Read Leszek Kolakowski's book or tons of others on the subject, contribution of Indian Marxists to Marxism is a big zero.

You read any leftist journal and the only existence that the JNU geniuses have is as letter writers or fringe readership.

anon_who_reads_shourie said...

anyway, it was good for an eminence to grace this comments thread. we dont get them often.

every one of my first comments were asserted to be WRONG. in the good old days, mere assertion would have been enough. and asserting 'wrong' in caps would have been like sure shot. sadly, it aint that way no more.

i would have ignored that, but then dragging in the good name of Shourie left me with no choice. Seeing the follow up comments - many anonymous so the eminence could actually think it was all the same person - warms my heart. thank you friends. and Shourie rocks.

Anonymous said...

You-know-who is no obama. and 'audacity of hope'? try 'the hopelessness of audacity'.

new indian express editor writes some good stuff here -
http://newindpress.com/newspages.asp?page=m&Title=Main+Article&